Please note spoilers for the Superman & Lois SERIES FINALE “It Went By So Fast” are being dicsussed in this interview! If you’re on the West Coast and/or haven’t watched yet, now is a good time to stop reading!

Well, we’ve reached that end point. Superman & Lois has ended, we have glimpses of the future, and while some characters were reunited in the afterlife, there were, of course, some who won’t be around forever. Hopefully you had tissues handy for those final moments.

After screening the S&L finale KryptonSite’s Craig Byrne was able to interview showrunners Todd Helbing and Brent Fletcher about the finale, and we touched upon some things audience might just be wondering. It’s likely our last S&L interview with this duo, and we thank them for frequently being available to talk to promote the show. Enjoy, and remember you can discuss the finale on our Superman & Lois forum!

KRYPTONSITE: Was it intentional to fill the final episode with tie ins back to all four seasons of the show?

BRENT FLETCHER: Yeah. We wanted to honor everything that came before, and then tell a life to come, so we felt like it was important to highlight that stuff.

There were obviously some things that we would have liked to have added. We missed Tal-Rho (Adam Rayner) we would have liked to have had him in there. You have constraints based on budget and time and personnel, but we wanted to kind of honor the whole breadth of the series in that moment.

Beyond Tal-Rho, is there any guest star you had hoped you can make it into the finale that you just couldn’t make happen?

TODD HELBING: I think we would have ideally had Dylan Walsh back in the moment when Lois says “Daddy.” I think also it would have been nice to get Lucy (Jenna Dewan) back for the last season.

BRENT: And the Mannheims! Peia and Mateo… we would have found a way to use them, for sure.

Speaking of guest stars, as that Bitsie Tulloch’s husband David Giuntoli is adult Jonathan?

TODD: That was David. We reached out to him, and he was so gracious to do it. And then, we really wanted to cast somebody that looked like Alex. Both of them got older, showed up, and had to cry, basically. So that was some awesome work.

Can you talk about bringing Bruno Mannheim (Chad Coleman) in for both of the final episodes?

TODD: He said in season three to Superman, that basically he hadn’t made any real change. Clearly, that sat with [Clark] for a long time, and we really wanted to hit this. We talked about that idea in the room quite a bit, so we really wanted to infuse that in the last season, so it felt like bringing Bruno back to tee that up was was the right move. Chad Coleman was just so fantastic, as always.

Can you talk about all the good that Clark and Lois are doing in Smallville even after he no longer has his powers.

BRENT: We kind of saw it as, again, to what Bruno had said, He has been reaching out and doing diplomatic stuff ,and doing economic stuff ,and trying to help in ways that don’t involve strength. They involve organization ,and participation, and getting other people to join. So we felt like That was kind of an interesting thing, for a man that had once had all this power, to then have power in a different way, but also still doing great good.

Are we to assume that there was never a Justice League in this world?

TODD: Yeah, very likely not. Not in the way that you historically think about it.

So does that imply that Jonathan and Jordan are the main heroes of this world?

TODD:

Jon, Jordan… Nat is part of that….. John Henry, too.

Are Clark and Lois still alive on Earth-Prime?

TODD: [Laughs] You know, I would assume that yeah, probably… I feel like it.

Was it surreal to have been the custodians of Superman and Lois Lane, telling their stories in such a unique way for the last four years?

TODD: Whenever you’re you’re writing stories for a property as big as this and as beloved as you know both of those those characters are, and trying to put your own spin on it and do something a little bit different than what people are used to, there are inherent pressures that come with that. But I think from the get go, we got such great response from people, and that response grew and grew. I’m just really proud to have been a part of such a special property.

BRENT: My first day of work, I was driving to Burbank, and the car in front of me had a big Superman “S” on it. And it really struck me “oh, this thing is big!” This person cared enough to put that emblem on their car, and I’m about to contribute to this… so I think you have to be very mindful of that, but it’s also kind of thrilling, because you get in there andyou can’t be subservient to it. You have to want to put your own spin and have a thing to say. Todd and Greg [Berlanti] had built a really great pilot that had such a great engine, and it was such a degree different than what I had seen before, with the family element and just struggling to be parents, with these great heroes… I felt like we always served that idea, and that made it its own unique thing, but felt worthy of the umbrella of all the other [Superman media].

It’s daunting, but it’s also thrilling to be part of that. You think “where did I make a good life decision that allows me to be a part of this?” And that’s fun.

TODD: At some point in one of the early pitches, it was said that the Superman crest is the second most recognizable icon in the world, next to the Christian cross, which when you think about it in those terms, it’s a little like “holy moly!”

I believe I read an interview you guys did where you said that you wanted this finale to be different from any other Superman type finale that we’ve ever seen before. Can you talk about that?

TODD: We watched a lot of series finales, and we know how important it is as audience members and fans of other shows, when you get to that moment, you just want something that emotionally resonates with you and has a lasting effect, so we approached it that way. We had an idea what we wanted to do, but the way it was going to be doled out, we took some time with, and did many versions. Hopefully, what people walk away with at the end is something meaningful to them, because you can interpret the ending in many different ways.

BRENT: You want it to feel earned, and like Todd said, you want to think about it afterwards. You also want it to also be reflective of what the show was, and what the show meant. We tried to basically tie everything up, but make it feel earned and emotional. Hopefully we were able to accomplish that.

The title of the episode is “It Went By So Fast.” Is that the feeling that you are personally having now that the show is almost finished airing?

TODD: Oh, yeah, a for sure. We started this during COVID, but it feels like yesterday. think as you get older, it’s something that everybody says at some point in their life, right? “It went by so fast”…. or “I can’t believe how fast time is going”…. and hopefully, it’s something that people look at and it helps or reminds them to appreciate moments more, and to slow things down a little bit.

BRENT: As you get older, your relationship with time changes a little bit. Like, you’re in high school and you can’t wait for the clock to run out so you can get out of school, and then you’re my age, and I’ve got kids, and all of a sudden they’ve jumped a grade, and it seems like that was in two days,. It’s funny how the older you get, the relationship with time, and your life, and your perspective changes. That was always hanging on the wall at Martha’s house, and we both relate to that being at our stage in life as parents, and we’re pretty sure that as we keep going in life, it’s going to keep hitting us over the head how fast things are going. So we felt like it was apropos as we said goodbye to Lois and Clark, that they would be feeling that as well.

Superman & Lois Season 4 should soon be streaming on Max, but will be well remembered by all.

The penultimate episode of Superman & Lois titled “To Live and Die Again” aired Monday, November 25 on The CW, and as promised, there were some spoilery things we discussed with the episode’s writer/director Jai Jamison — and some great things we didn’t even have time to get you (but maybe our friends at Superman TV Talk covered that ground with Jai, so check them out!)

Part 1 of our interview can be found here; Part 2 can be read below… though be sure you’ve watched the episode before reading!

KRYPTONSITE’S CRAIG BYRNE: How did it come about to bring back Chad Coleman for the penultimate episode?Did you personally feel there was unfinished business with Bruno?

JAI JAMISON: For sure. I wrote and directed [the episode], but it’s still very much a team effort where we broke it in the room. I was coming back into the room after everyone else had broken and written eight episodes up to that point, so I was getting caught up. There were plot lines that were kind of set up that I had to pay off and then tee up for the finale.

One of the things that I knew I wanted, and we were very keen on in the room, was that there would be a Lois Lane investigative plot line. Superman is going to be the fighting the physical battle, and Lois is going to be fighting the battle of public opinion, and like I said, trying to get her mojo back from the last episode. We were looking at different avenues Lois could go down. And it was actually Todd and Brent, because there are certain things you can pitch and certain things you can’t pitch. It’s up to the showrunner to be like, “okay, we can bring this character back.” So, Todd and Brent came in after a few days in the room, and were like, “you know what? What if we brought back Bruno?” and I was like, “yes, please!”

I think there’s a lot of storyline that if we had a few more seasons, I would have gone back to Bruno for, myself. With Chad [Coleman]’s portrayal, I found that character to be so interesting, and layered, and nuanced. I definitely felt like there was unfinished business. So as soon as Todd and Brent pitched the idea, and we made sure we could do it, the rest of the episode just kind of fell into place in terms of how Lois’ investigation leads her back to the beginning, and he then gives her these nuggets of information that eventually drive the wedge between Amanda and Lex. It becomes a key focal point to hoow everything kind of unfolds. That scene was just a joy to film. Bitsie and Chad were an A+ game in that scene. They always bring it.

One of the most powerful scenes in “To Live and Die Again” involved Jordan (Alex Garfin) helping Victoria May who is having a panic attack. Can you talk about how Jordan’s personal experience adds to his own personal superpowers?

That sequence was one that was really special for me. When we were breaking the episode, you know, we spent a lot of time breaking out and beating out the first five acts in terms of things, and then Act Six, it was like, “al; right, well, that’s going to lead into the finale.” We knew it was going to be in Smallville. We knew it was going to be more on the ground, with the boys, with Lois and the townspeople, witnessing the fight in a way that they didn’t in the finale of Season Three. They really just saw the beginning of it, but then it went into space and everything. This was them kind of witnessing it closer to home.

With the boys, their whole arc is learning what they can do. Learning that it’s not focusing on what they can’t do in relation to their father, but what they can do, and so for me, that scene of Jordan is playing into what was for a long time considered weakness, or his, own personal kryptonite, if you will. He’s been through the social anxiety, because he’s had panic attacks, and then in that moment, it’s him stepping into the light as a hero and using that empathy, which is like so much of what this show, to me, is about.

It is hope, understanding, empathy, connection, family. Those are the touchstones; the things that we always talk about, and using that moment to show the type of hero that he was going to become… it was crazy, because it just kind of came to me. We hadn’t beat it out, but just like one morning I was writing the script, and I woke up and the that scene, and then immediately after Jonathan’s save, which was like an homage to Superman catching the car in the in the pilot… it was just like, “oh, here are the boys’ hero moments.”

For me, I discovered while working on this show in Season 3 that I had anxiety. I started having panic attacks. Every time I turned a script in, I would wind up in the hospital. It was this crazy thing. I know it was just this whole thing where the anxiety of working on the script, and doing my dream job, and I’d want it to be so good. I’m working so hard. And then I get to the end, and I turn the turn the script in, and then, my body just shuts down. Finally, my doctor said “you have anxiety.” Todd and Brent so useful and so helpful in terms of being understanding with me, when I had to take days off and go to the doctor, or whatever.

It was that moment [writing the episode] where I was like, “oh, I understand this moment now.” Even directing it, talking to Alex [Garfin] about it, a getting that scene down… I knew both sides of it, and it was just one of those things where I love Superman, and I love people using their powers in different ways.

Part of what I love about Superman is not just that he’s strong and he’s fast and he has all of these abilities, but he also is there to calm people. He’s there to be like “it’s going to be okay. I’m here, I’ve got you,” you know? That, to me, was what that moment was with Jordan and Vicki May. It was kind of the thing where it was the kind of hero that I would have wanted to see. I could imagine myself as Vicki May in that moment, and Jordan became that hero that I would have needed.

Directing Superman versus Lex Luthor… was your inner child excited?

Oh, let me tell you something. This entire episode, there were so many moments that I was literally dancing around set. Having the Superman versus Lex Luthor showdown in the penthouse was a moment. Being able to design Milton’s console system, with the idea that it would look like Brainiac, having the wires and everything that, when I saw what the set dec and art department had done to create that, I was blown away. [Jamison also pointed out that the props department made a “lost city of Kandor” as an Easter egg on Milton’s desk].

There were so many moments in this episode that 15 year old me would have just been losing his mind. I mean, Clark and the boys training together… the inspiration for that was me playing basketball with my dad. There were so many moments that were absolutely that childhood nerd dream come true, definitely starting with the Superman Lex Luthor showdown in the suit. The full Lex… bald, shaven, suited up. It was amazing.

Our thanks to Jai Jamison for taking the time to do this interview. A trailer for next week’s SERIES FINALE can be found here!

Jai Jamison is one of our favorites around here at KryptonSite, and he was the writer and director of tonight’s new episode “To Live and Die Again,” November 25 on The CW. Would you believe it’s the next to last episode EVER?

We’ve posted a preview interview at KSiteTV and of course, photos for the episode can be found here. After the episode has aired look for a post-mortem interview!